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 I need help

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umbongo

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PostSubject: I need help   Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:50 pm

Hi, iv been interested in vegetarianism for a very long time and now its time for me to make the change. I am really interested in the vegan raw diet and have been introducing live food into my lifestyle for a couple of weeks now. I am a recently qualified personal trainer and love to train in the gym but unsure of what raw foods to eat at what times and also how much to eat per day so that i do not lose too much weight during the transition, do you know where i could find a two week eating programme with times and amounts for someone who trains at least five days a week and most of the time twice a day, weights a.m and cardio p.m.
I really hope you can help me.
Thank you
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:58 pm

What does your current diet look like?
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:46 pm

First of all I would like to say thanks for your reply, I appreciate it.
OK, here's a one day eating programme of mine from 3 months ago, I hope its enough,I ate the same pretty much everyday only varying the fruit and veg, and sometimes having nuts and dried fruit in place of some fruits.



07.30 - 500ml water
07.45 - black coffee
08.00 - oats with milk+water
09.00 - 10.30 - weight training
- 1 ltr water
10.45 - protein shake with water+tsp of creatine
11.15 - 2 apples
......................................cont...........................................................................
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:57 pm

12.15 - salad (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, olives), 2 slices of wholemeal bread, 200g
pork, beef or turkey
- 500ml water
14.20 - black coffee+half tsp of creatine
14.30 - 40min to 60min running machine
- 1ltr water
15.30 - protein shake made with water+tsp of creatine16.30 - piece of fruit
17.15 - 4 small potatoes, peas, sweetcorn, broccoli, 2 chicken breasts
gravy (sometimes)
19.30 - 2 oranges
21.00 - 2 slices of brown bread, tuna in brine, 1 large tomato
- 500ml water
22.00 - green tea
23.30 - bed

( give or take a few cups of tea/coffee )

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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:06 am

Are you maintaining your current weight on this diet? Or are you trying to lose fat or gain lean mass? I'm not sure how heavy you are, but your current diet might be a bit light on the protein, but I'm not sure because I don't know all the quantities.
Are you looking to do a raw vegan diet? Or a raw diet with raw milk, honey, meat, egg, and/or fish etc. ?
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:55 am

9 months ago I was on a diet that was a bit heavy for me, I put on plenty of muscle but a lot of fat too, im only 5ft 8 and I got to nearly 14st. I switched to the diet I posted on here to lose fat but try to keep the most muscle possible. I am now 12st with not a lot of fat. I forgot to mention I was eating cottage cheese before bed too for the slow release protein while I sleep.
My sammatotype/body type is endomorph so i really have to be careful when it comes to fats, my body puts on fat fast and its always been something iv had to watch.
I try to eat roughly 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight each day.
I am looking to do a vegan raw diet with the exceptions of home made bread and honey, I will also use vegetarian creatine.
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:55 am

The few raw vegan lifters I've known have had excellent strength to body weight ratios. Surprisingly they've also not consumed a lot of protein by the way. Never heard of a raw vegan that got 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight.

I personally don't consider myself any kind of raw vegan expert. I've never tred to go raw and have only known a few people online who have. One fellow benched 300 pounds at a bodyweight of around 200 and could do double bodyweight dips. And he claimed he'd go long periods where he just ate fruit. Nothing but fruit. Which didn't really sound like a good idea to me.

I knew a few others along the same lines. Guys who looked awesome but who would just grab some fruit off the trees along the road and that's what they'd eat that day. I wondered if in the long term they'd eventually get some nutritional deficiency.

I'm actually not aware of anyone completely raw who's been very careful with their diet. Although surely they're out there. More likely the knowledgeable people are just some percentage of raw. When reaching 100% raw you're more likely to run into fanatics who talk about B12 supplementation being a conspiracy.

With all that said I'm doubting you can be raw and get your bodyweight in protein each day. And if you did I think it might be a brand new version of raw that possibly no other person on the planet actually follows. The main thinking in raw being to be "natural". And getting all that protein just wouldn't be considered remotely natural.

I think you might want to just take things gradual. Extreme changes to one's diet usually don't work out in the long run. I'd suggest slowly adding more fruit. Not fruit juice, but real fruit. And replacing the meat in your diet with some type of legumes.

My own experience is that my strenght to body weight ratio increased the more I've replaced protein with just eating fruit. But surely that would only hold true up to a point. (Surely I couldn't replace all the protein with fruit??? I don't know. Never tried it.)
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PostSubject: Here You go   Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:36 pm

If you need help try http://www.Infinitewellness2010.com you get personalized dietary intake needs, customized meal plans and more
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:36 am

A couple of ideas. I'd consider adding in something like Sun Warrior Protein Powder or a good hemp protein concentrate (most of the 49% stuff is considered raw). Both of these will add protein, but still adhere to a raw lifestyle.
I would aim at a balanced diet. You can still grind flax seeds for your omega 3 fatty acids & or hemp seeds, walnuts as well if you want variety. I'd also think about keeping your fats at a reasonable level. You could eat nuts, avocados etc as a decent source of fats. Most raw food people tend to be smaller, so as a person looking for strength & size you'll have to modify your raw diet as much just as much as say a meat eater who eats a typical diet, then decides to train. Your diet will not look like the typical raw food diet, it can't, you have specific goals. To gain size, you need more calories than most raw food people. I'm sure if you really planned out every detail you may be able to do it without supplements..but why bother, you can buy raw protein powders, so why not use them? Meat eating bodybuilders use protein, so do veggies & vegans, so unless you really want to go crazy & spend your life in the kitchen & searching the net for rare wholefoods take advantage & use a few dietary aids like powders etc.
I'm not sure there are too many sites out there that deal specifically with raw food for size & strength.

Personally I'd transition to vegan diet that is high raw from the diet you are on right now,

so you can swap the turkey, tuna & chicken with tofu, tempeh, seitan or low fat fake meat. I'd also like some changes from potato, vary that with quinoa (pronounced "Keen-wa" for some reason?), amaranth, brown rice, also for your salad I'd like to see some variety like having a bean salad, or a tofu salad with houmous etc (you can make the houmous yourself - you can even make raw houmous & so control the fat content if you prefer). From there you can experiment with increasing the raw food content.

Sorry I couldn't point you at a site, but I don't know of any. I know James Southwood has had great success in competition doing savate (a type of kick boxing). He's not a huge guy, but has stayed pretty fit on a raw diet - this is his site. He might be worth trying to contact?
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:07 pm

Thank you to everyone that replied to my problem, I appreciate it.


A special thanks to Pete.
Cheers mate! you answered every question I wanted to ask and more, with the information you have given me I now feel I have the confidence to make the change and without getting bored of the diet too. ('cheers') Top bloke!
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:04 am

Do bear in mind you are moving to a less calories dense diet than you were on, even things like say you drink whole milk & move to soya milk, you'd need to have more to get the same calories. It's a pain, but it is actually worth actually working out your present calorie intake, then as you make changes seeing where the calories go. So many people fail, not because of the diet, but because without realising they have dropped calories...& so feel drained & weaker.
Also bear in mind you need a different variety of flora in your gut, so I do also suggest you think about taking probiotics for a while, you could also take some digest enzymes as well if you like. This can help make the transition easier as you need to breed a whole set of bacteria in your alimentary canal & you need to produce a whole different ratio of stomach enzymes. It just eases the transition (lessens the chances of bloating etc while you make any changes).
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:08 pm

That last point by Pete is important. The other possibility being making the change gradually, otherwise you just might feel awful for a while and give it up. If someone drastically changes their diet, even going from unhealthy to healthy foods, they just might feel awful for a while but the body should eventually adjust.
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:19 am

I've talked about that very thing Jay (in a soon to be announced 'thing' that's coming out in the very near future...can't talk about it yet). You pretty summarised a whole section into one sentence Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:11 pm

Hey everyone.
I thought I would give you all an update of how I am getting on since you all took the time to help me.
It's now been a month and I am right into the raw veganism, I couldn't help it, my plan was to go vegetarian for a while to get used to not eating meat but the thought of eating cooked food was looking less and less appealing all the time, so I ended up checking out a few raw recipes and trying them, they were great! so the inevitable happened, I found more and more things to make 'and all lovely might I add' and just have not stopped and can't see me stopping in the near future.
The diet is not boring when do a bit of research there's a lot of selection out there, I have been making all kinds of stuff, green smoothies banana berries n kale, blackberry raspberry kiwi n spinach etc, nut milks/ flavours-chock n vanilla, goji n cinnamon, choc banana blueberry etc, juices-carrot lemon lime etc, sprout salads, flax crackers/raw dip, kale crisps, coconut biscuits, choc biscuits, chock brownie, choc vanilla n coconut truffles and more. Next I will be trying the raw soups, cereal and ice cream.

I have been doing this for four weeks-ish so far, I am training six days a week with no supplements and not only has my bodyweight not changed, I am still 12st and my strength has gone up a little, I am slightly stronger than I have ever been.
It is too early to notice any real changes ......................
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:20 pm

But I am noticing the subtle changes already, it feels great on the body as well as the mind.
I have also been driving to the local springs and collecting the water direct so the only water I am using in anything I make and anything I drink including the water itself is straight out of the ground, fully active. This has definitely had a great effect on me, especially in the gym, and the more I am researching water the more amazing it becomes, so to me this is an important part of my diet.

So there it is................................till next time
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:37 pm

We have some recipes on the main VBB site here
The main issue with raw isn't getting vitamins & minerals, but basically getting enough calories. Keep an eye on your overall intake & your basic macro-nutrient intake & you'll do ok. Remember there are things like superfoods that a lot of raw people take & you can also get proteins that are suitable for raw athletes if you need them. I hope you've taken some 'before' photos & written down your starting stats, so you can track the results as it should be interesting!
Keep us up to date with how you're getting on as it will be interesting to see how you do.
What are your actual aims & goals you are trying to achieve. Have you got any strength, physique goals beyond just changing to a raw food diet? If you have we can see how close you get to them (or how far you'll exceed them by!)
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:11 pm

Glad it's going well.
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:29 pm

Thanks guys!
I loved the recipes thanks, especially the sweet stuff.
Your right on the Calories mate its tough, I am eating a lot but so it seems not enough, the inevitable has happened, I am now loosing weight, its been about 6 weeks now and in the last week I dropped quite a bit I am now weighing 11st 8lb and my body is shrinking although I am not getting any weaker.
I have accepted this and will sit this one out to get the maximum benefit at the end, although it is disheartening training six days a week and not only not getting bigger but shrinking! Mad But hey I have done a lot of research now on this diet and the long term benefits are outstanding so for me this is just all part of the journey to where I want to be. Once I get passed the losing weight stage hopefully I will gain more then before but we will see.
I do have have some photo's of myself at 14st and 12st but on general photo's, I was not fully prepared for this but I do have some sort of rough record. I will put a photo on here soon too, I will also try to show you the pics of me changing sizes.
Goals and aims, well yes I suppose, I have been studying barefoot running too and practising the technique (forefoot) and I am impressed, I would like to run a charity run between 5 and 8 miles in the spring bare footed so I suppose that is a goal. I would also like to bench press 100kg as I have plateaued at 80kg for 4 reps at the moment but I think this may be to do with the big changes that my body is going through right now. Only time will tell.
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:32 pm

For the bench I've found speed work every other session for a cycle really helps. You can use bands ideally, but chains can work as well. It takes a while the first session to get the right band or chain, but you should be working at approx 60% of you max doing max speed reps with the bands (you lift as fast as is safely possible). This is best done with a spotter (any barbell benching is best done with a spotter). Using higher speed training seems to add power to your lifting. The guys at Westside & many other powerlifting clubs use speed work, Andy Bolton (biggest deadlifter in the world & working on a world record bench right now) uses it, a very large % of todays powerlifters use it, so it seems to work for them. I've used it to an extent & got results. I intend to use it a lot more over the winter & see where it gets me.
Just be aware that with bands a bar, if dropped will fly downwards at faster than gravity, so I suggest a rack with safety bars, so if the worst happens the bar hits those & not your neck!Keep us up to date with the diet.
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:04 pm

Thank you for the tips in the gym mate, I will look into that straight away and add it in for the new week, I will let you know how this goes too.

I just thought I would add this on as it only happened today: today's session was bi's n tri's (arms) and although I am still shrinking a little in size and loosing weight I again beat my pb on 'the preacher' bicep curl. I am loosing size but not strength, at all.

I would also like to add that since I swapped my old meat eating diet for this plant based diet my skin has improved so much, even though I never thought there was anything wrong with it in the first place, as people keep telling me how lovely my skin looks, and I have had many of these comments now so there must be some truth in it.

So far I must say giving up my old diet for this new one
(although it's become more of a lifestyle) was one of, if not the best decision I have ever made, and I have only just started. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:15 am

It's nice to hear about the positive effects. I'm still a little size orientated even though I am slowly moving towards more strength activities with weight classes (so lighter weight would actually be an advantage) - a lot of people notice skin tone & quality improvement (admittedly others do have a negative effects the first few weeks with some spots & stuff, THEN it clears up to better than before - I think that's just a massive elimination process going on). If the strength is still coming, then I'm pretty sure the size will sort itself out with some minor tweaking (or maybe even just after some time to adjust?). As long as the size doesn't become a real issue you'd probably be best to see where you go, maybe increase calories if things start going too far. It's not really rocket science, to get bigger, eat more. You can up calories simply by adding concentrated calories like shakes if you are feeling too full, or just add more food to every meal if you're ok with that - but only if you feel the need because the weight is slipping too low for comfort.
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PostSubject: Re: I need help   Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:00 pm

I can reccomend this book if you are wanting to go the the raw vegan way
http://www.fresh-network.com/acatalog/becoming-raw.html
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