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 Any thoughts on Casein??

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PhysCultureFan



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PostSubject: Any thoughts on Casein??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:47 pm

This is just another topic, I have no plans on trying Casein because somewhere I once read it wasn't too great, can't remember where but it seemed to say basically they found Casein as a kind of seaweed off of Ireland and the Irish would make a pudding out of it back in the old days and now it has long been used in Ice Cream in the way, from what I understand, it can have a gelatin-like effect mixed with the dairy product. I think I've got that straight, mind you, I'm trying to recall this. It has carrageenan in it. The article was not flattering to it.

But I've opened up muscle magazines lately and now, Casein seems to be being sold as a protein to the general public in big cannisters just like the other ones are. I don't really recall them doing this even a few years ago. I even saw some digestibility chart of a few proteins listed. I'm reading books now versus the magazine from time to time, not the best sort of informational source.

I don't want anyone to go to any trouble to research this matter but if you know of anything on this, it's an interesting topic and I might be way wrong in my preconceived notions.
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts on Casein??   Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:51 pm

See, I may not know what I'm talking about here...

"The possible mechanism of fiber-rich brown seaweeds in affecting the protein bioavailability of casein and their related nutritional implications were discussed."

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a713995038

Maybe Casein is in Milk and maybe it's found in the seaweed too. I'm probably way off here. Surely, the kind they sell in cannisters is dairy so I would not be looking to buy that kind anyway.

"The term "seaweed calcium" is also used for human supplements and it's quite simple and understandable in English. In addition, term "seaweed calcium" is used in references 3 and 4 below when discussing supplementing dogs' diets."

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/food_dairy/2698970-algenkalk.html

Whatever! Sorry for the confusion but what I heard about Casein anyway did not sound inviting to try.
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts on Casein??   Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:19 am

Casein is a protein derived from milk, not from seaweed. The first study you pointed to was testing out how different seaweed intake affected the amount of protein assimilated in rats from casein (the casein being separate from the seaweed just fed together in the experiment).
If you accept the studies done by T.Colin Campbell that he published in his book "The China Study" then casein is actually a powerful carcinogen, obviously we do need further study as any one result has to be confirmed many times over, in different ways before it can be said to be proven, but it should concern to those who eat casein. Anecdotally, of all the proteins out there this is the one that most people actually have problems dealing with, it's hard to deal with, they call it a 'slow release protein' another way of saying when it hits the stomach the acid & heat turn it into a 'lump' that's damn hard to digest! Even if it was available from a plant source I wouldn't recommend it as it is a possible carcinogen & hard on the digestion.
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts on Casein??   Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:56 pm

Thanks this clarifies a lot of things, if I said thanks for all the times Pete answers questions, it'd be about half of all the postings. pirat
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts on Casein??   Tue May 04, 2010 5:10 pm

"Carrageenan- A stabilizer or thickening agent made from a type of seaweed. This proudct is often used in commercially prepared milk products, deserts and until recently ready-to-eat baby formula. There have been some reports linking carrageenan to some forms of cancer."

- Book "Nutriscore" (1976) by Ruth Fremes & Dr. Zak Sabry

This must have been what I read about but Casein must have been mentioned as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts on Casein??   Wed May 05, 2010 1:53 pm

All the page numbers quoted are from
The Opinion of the Scientific Committee on Food on Carrageenan EUROPEAN COMMISSION HEALTH & CONSUMER PROTECTION DIRECTORATE-GENERAL (this is a downloadable pdf file)

Carrageenan - is an odd one in a few respects. Claims that it's a proven carcenogen are in fact incorrect from what has been published.
It appears degraded carrageenan (also called poligeenan) may have bad effects on the body...but the degraded product isn't usually found in food grade carrageenan. The EU looked into this very question in 2003. It appears poligeenan causes ulcerations in stomach, whereas food grade carrageenan does not (page 2). One study showed negative effects of carrageenan, while 2 studies using higher dosages showed no increase (Pages 3-4). This does not indicate a link, if there was a link the higher intakes should have provoked higher rates, not no increase in cancer at all! It seems the studies using the higher dosages appeared more vigorous that the one negative study in design (although they were all done on animals, so what that means to humans is questionable in itself). So far there seems no causal link between carrageenan & any cancer. (page 6) There may be some links to poligeenan & health issues, but there is no detectable amount of poligeenan in carrageenan (they did recommend refining the testing technique for poligeenan so they could lower limits to the minimum), but that there is no evidence of negative health effects from carrageenan & no evidence of poligeenan in food grade carrageenan (page 5).
Hopefully that clears that up. It should be noted that this doesn't 'prove' that carrageenan does not cause cancer, just that as far as we know at this time there is no confirmed link & most of the evidence at the moment points towards it being safe.
To be frank there is a concern about carrageenan & baby products as it could cross the gut/blood barrier in immature digestive tracts - I would suggest that maybe people try & avoid giving it to babies as it's an unknown factor in a developing baby. But for any weaned human I'd say it was as safe as can say for now - that may, may not change (we can say that about any food!), but for now I'd say it's on the safe list unless new info comes out.

----

Update

I've been looking through some other research material. In most instances in studies researchers use what's called 'ungraded' carrageenan, this not food grade, the poligeenan levels aren't tested & they get bad results. You can only see this if you read every detail of the full studies (it's not even mentioned in the abstracts!). Basically the research is useless (at least in the EU as we have tests in place to keep tabs on poligeenan levels - I'm not sure what the US has in place, sorry). For those in the EU at least these tests show nothing as they use different stuff to the stuff we eat. As we all know the effects of poligeenan & the fact (at least in the EU) we don't eat it, then why not just test food grade carrageenan - it's almost like they are trying to make it look bad, but as far as I know there really are no commercial wars about carrageenan, it's not a huge product like the dairy/soya face-off. It's all a bit confusing...unless they still use ungraded carrageenan in the US of course, that would explain the continued testing? I'll see if I can find a FDA position statement on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts on Casein??   Wed May 05, 2010 6:25 pm

That's a real good posting, thanks.

Readily, I probably don't eat carrageenan but it may well be one of those products that makes its way into a lot of foods which I'm probably hopefully doing more and more without as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts on Casein??   Today at 10:21 pm

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